Licznik OTUS-1 u operatora Energa

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1

Hej, dostałem taką odpowiedź w związku z uruchomieniem WM-BUS na licznikach od Energii. Mój licznik to Opus-1.

W związku z Pani zgłoszeniem informujemy, że liczniki stosowane w Energa-Operator SA posiadają port USB, za pośrednictwem którego mogą zostać udostępniane dane pomiarowe, zgodnie z Rozporządzaniem. Bardzo prosimy o założenie zgłoszenia przez stronę www. energa-operator.pl z podaniem typu, modelu urządzenia, numeru urządzenia, producenta oraz danych do uwierzytelnienia urządzenia (model DLMS-COSEM) które to chciałaby Pani podłączyć do portu USB Licznika Energii Elektrycznej.
Ze względu na zastosowaną technologię oraz przepisy RODO takie urządzenia muszą zostać dopuszczone do użytkowania przez stronę Energa-Operator SA. Podanie powyższych danych pozwoli na skontaktowanie się z Producentem urządzenia i dopuszczenie go do użytkowania.

Pragnę podkreślić, że na razie żaden producent nadajników W-MBUS nie zgłosił się o dopuszczenie swojego produktu do użytkowania z licznikami energii elektrycznej.

Zastanawia mnie ostatnie zdanie, bo jak dla mnie to jest zdanie w formie “przestanie nam zawracać gitarę”

2

These 3 parts does not make any sense! W-MBUS does not use DLMS-COSEM. W-MBUS should transmit only and the receiver is receiving it. It has no interactions with the meter as it is wireless.

If USB port, then what is the output there? If DLMS-COSEM authentication and encryption then what is the method used?

I would just reply, could you please provide actually technical details of the communication port and communication standard that the meter is using for access by the end user, because the provided information so far is inconsistent. Then I can choose the device for communication according the requirements.

I though Energea already allowed users to access their data.

Otherwise the OTUS 1 should have LTE/PLC and maybe W-MBUS and optionally a P1 port (likely sealed). The P1 port would use DLMS-COSEM and would require a P1 reader to be connected physically to the RJ45 connector on the meter.

3

Trudno oczekiwać logiki po tamtej stronie skoro wszystko jest wywrócone do góry nogami juz na poziomie stanowienia prawa.

1 polubienie
4

To drążyć temat dalej, czy kazać im określić się dokładnie o co tak naprawdę chodzi? Znalezienie urządzenia z dopuszczenie ORE do podłączenia pod urządzenie pomiarowe dostępnego dla zwykłego użytkownika graniczy z cudem do tego nie wiem, czy sama Energa chciała by cokolwiek podłączać do portu USB.

To już druga odpowiedź od Energii. Za pierwszy razem kazali pisać do działu “pomiarowego”. Napisałem a oni mi znów to samo wysłali.

5

wMBUS nie ma nic wspólnego z USB, to jacyś biurowi pracownicy odpisali.

Zrób ładne foty swojego licznika (kody paskowe i dane umożliwiające identyfikację konkretnego egzemplarza należy zamazać, jeśli nie wiesz co zamazać wyślij je na PW to ogarnę), to pewnie ktoś na forum oceni co naprawdę masz zamontowane.

6

Ja mam taki licznik. Na stronie producenta nic nie pisze o WM-BUS więc nie wiem czy on go ma. Z tego co inni pisali wersja trójfazowa WM-BUS ma.
Jakby ktoś wiedział jak podejść Energe do włączenia WM-BUS na liczniku OTUS-1 bez podłączania czegokolwiek do portu USB będę wdzięczny.

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7

No cóż, nie da się włączyć czegoś, co nie jest zamontowane w tym liczniku…

Liczniki bazujące na tych samych ustrojach pomiarowych (czyli ten sam “model handlowy” OTUS-1) mają wiele różnych wykonań, w przypadku dużych dostawców są wytwarzane pod konkretną specyfikację - to wykonanie nie ma modułu wMBUS tylko moduł DLMS (czy z niego da się zrobić jakiś użytek nie wiem, bo tekst o USB brzmi co najmniej dziwnie, powinieneś mieć tam port P1).

W nowym świetle (licznik nie ma modułu wM-BUS) odpowiedź nabrała nowego sensu

po prostu zadałeś im niewłaściwe pytanie.

8

That seems to be not having the W-MBUS module. Maybe under the cover there is a P1 port, but I am really doubt that.

If it would have the W-MBUS module then you would have a logo of that. I believe the communication statndard in the meters are DLMS/COSEM and that is used through the IR port.

On an OTUS 3 the labels look like this:

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@szopen - that PRIME+ is shocking, an idiotic implementation on top of another one.

Be warned that the DLMS protocol stack is created by a succession
of morons, doing one stupid thing after another for several decades.

@_Szczepan, I would usually argue about this, but I have read both the Energy Law and the regulation on the implementation of the smart metering. It should make it clear how to use the W-MBUS protocol and what to implement, but your comment regarding the end-user’s device is absolutely correct. And looking at the image of the OTUS 1 provided by @opast, it makes it even more clear, that the law has gone seriously side way.

Edit: Added the image from the computer.

9

Czyli wnioskuję, że ten konkretny licznik nie ma wbudowanego protokołu WM-BUS a wniosek o wymianę licznika na obsługujący ten protokół może wiązać się z dodatkową opłatą jak to inni mieli ze swoimi dostawcami prądu.

Napisze do nich, czy są w stanie bezpłatnie wymienić mi licznik prądu na ten z obsługą WM-BUS. Nie chce nic do tego co mam dodatkowo podłączać, bo licznik jest na korytarzu klatki schodowej.

10

Czy chcesz, czy nie chcesz wydaje się, że nie za bardzo jest co podłączyć.

11

The price is roughly 400 PLN for a remote reading meter from the operator. And looking at the image that you shared, I can see, that it has indeed got USB written on it just below the LCD screen…

But also it has PLC/APN but there is no marker above it, or I cannot see it. That would be for the communication to the operator’s system.

12

This might be interest of you about the solution in Energa.

http://w.ptpiree.pl/konferencje/pomiary/2023/materialy/23.pdf

And this one is from Energa’s website:

@szopen or @_Szczepan, could you have a look at this? Just search for the word USB and check what is included. I cannot figure out what exactly this USB port does and what device should be connected to it…

Edit: I’ve just read through that specification, and it suggests to me, that the USB port is for a device, which could be installed permanently for HAN communication, but the operator used the USB like somebody has never heard of any other smart metering standards for HAN communication. To be honest, this is the biggest mess which I have seen so far on the Polish market.

Edit #2: Here is another document which I found. The explanation why to use an USB port:

I would consider, that this is where information technology stops working. Energa reinvented the wheel just for themselves without having a complete solution for the customers. Of course, there is no USB device available for HAN communication, because nobody else has ever used a USB port for this kind of communication.

@opast - after you have read this last one, you will give up… it is cheaper to buy your own meter and have it installed inside your switchboard.

13

Energa is a state of mind in general. I currently have the actual billing service enabled, where Energa should read the meter status on its own but it… doesn’t work from the very beginning. I have to enter the meter status myself on their website. The best part is that the website brags about this technology and how many customers such a solution can have. Laughable.

Until I got interested in the subject, even the “Mój Licznik” application did not work properly and showed silly things. Fortunately, this has already been fixed for me.

I’ll check if the status of the meter is sensed by them remotely, if not I’ll invoke the meter problems. Maybe this way it will be possible to get a meter from WM-BUS

14

I wouldnát have high hopes regarding the W-MBUS. The documentum from ENERGA, which I linked, is from 2018, far earlier than the actual smart metering regulation was published. ENERGA built everything on that, and not on the W-MBUS. The regulation allows deviation from W-MBUS with an excuse, and obviously if you built your hole system before the regulation with a different technology, it is a good excuse to not spend another fortune to move to W-MBUS. Smart metering does not worth for the DSOs, it is just a non-necessary expense on their side without any significant financial benefit.

Your meter should be able to communicate with the ENERGA’s central station and your reading should be availalbe in the “Mój Licznik” website/app. But as I noted, I cannot see the PLC/APN marker active on your screen, so it is likely not working. I would pursue that, and would use the integration in the other topic to read the data, but knowing that all this information is all provided 1 or 2 days late, it worth nothing for active power management.

15

I am therefore treating this as a curiosity. For active current measurement, the AT4PW module integrated into the HA will be used. For this I use the My Meter integration already available in the HA. It reads my meter every 24 hours. For the time being, this is enough for me because it is still better than I had a month ago, where I had to leave the flat to read the meter.

16

On the side of the USB port, let me highlight some sentences from the previously linked document:

ENERGA-OPERATOR SA decided that an USB port is to be used as HAN interface. The requirements of URE do not identify a specific type of port, so each OSD can use any HAN interface in AMI meters. ENERGA-OPERATOR SA chose the USB port because it is an open communications port which gives new technical possibilities associated with the use of AMI meters.
Advantages of the use of USB ports in electricity meters are as follows:
• ability to use any communications technology (from USB to home gateway)
• ability to adapt the communications technology to the meter installation point by using a suitable adapter connected to the USB port
• ability to use wireless and wired communications technologies • the solution is open to application of new, currently unknown technologies
• standardisation of powering of the communications adapter connected to the USB port standardisation of the physical and logical communications layer.

In view of the above, it is clear that some problems and difficulties appeared during the 1st phase of implementation, and ENERGA-OPERATOR SA had to find its own solutions. A strong emphasis was put on interoperability, reliability and innovation of solutions. However, one of the main problems is that on the market there are no finished products that would satisfy all of the requirements of ENERGA-OPERATOR SA:
• there is no smart metering infrastructure which meets the requirements, in particular there are no meters with PRIME communication and a USB port, as well as no balancing meters with required specifications

A USB port is one of the requirements introduced by ENERGAOPERATOR SA to AMI meters. On the one hand, the need to use a communications port in AMI meters arise from the requirements of URE (a specific type of port is not indicated), on the other, the use of an open communication port, i.e. USB, gives new technical possibilities connected with the use of AMI. So far, communications ports have been used in some types of meters, but with many limitations, which could be overcome only in cooperation with the supplier of the particular type of meter and required extra costs. Introduction of a USB port (previously used for communication in personal computers and household devices) to energy meters provides new ways to use electricity meters, for example by communicating the meter with home automation devices, which receive the information that enable optimisation of their operation.

In my translation it sounds like, ENERGA has implemented a communication port (USB) which has not been ever used by anybody for communication on a meter and has no working communication modules for it on the market, but it has possibilities. And fairness it has nothing more to add then a P1 port, because the USB port should operate as virtual serial port, but the only advantage, that the USB device should be on the approved device list to communicate with the meter.

It basically sets a further barrier for any device to be able to receive messages or communicate with the meter. The manufacturer should spend time and money to develop the device, then it has to go through a certification process with the operator to be added to the allowed device list, then you will be able to purchase only that device to communicate with the meter. Knowing the market size and the amount of meters, that would be likely far above the price of any electricity meter which you can install by an electrician for yourself.

Further documentations from ENERGA on the operation of the USB port:

https://energa-operator.pl/upload/wysiwyg/dokumenty_do_pobrania/centrum_informacji/informacje/2017/DT-2-17/Zal1.2-Model_danych_COSEM.DOCX

I would consider that all of these limitations are likely go against the EU directive regarding smart metering as the whole idea is transparency.

17

Nie można powiedzieć, że człowiek, który maczał palce w tym USB nie zna się na robocie
https://piit.org.pl/o-nas/eksperci/robert-masiag
https://rejestr.io/krs/859239/prosta-energia

18

I assume that has never seen any meters before with a P1, HAN or W-MBUS, and wanted to create something that people would know his name for… He has got it…

What level of overhead do you need for a USB device???

Now think of it, who will develop a device to connect it to the USB port, has it certified with ENERGA and be able to put on the market for a reasonable price.

Consider the options for W-MBUS… Besided the one from @_Szczepan, you cannot find devices off the shelf.

Consider the options for P1 or HAN, and the mess of compatibility and implementation of DLMS/COSEM, ecnryption and authentication, HDLC, etc… There are a dozen options or maybe more, ranging from 30 EUR to 100 EUR.

Has he got a personal business which has already a USB device like that???

19

Wydaje mi się, że operator wirtualny Prosta (którą firmę chyba założył zanim została operatorem) kiedyś oferował jakieś urządzenia które były podłączane do licznika (jakiś czas temu szukając informacji o Prosta trafiłem na takie informacje gdzieś w internecie - nie wiem jak to urządzenie było łączone z licznikami, ale P1 oraz USB są prawdopodobne). Obecnie sprzedają własny podlicznik w formie modułu WiFi instalowanego za licznikiem dostawcy.

20

Surprise, surprise! :rofl:

And seriously, I was just joking about it before… This is absolutely sick!