Licznik AMIPlus w Tauron i problemy z aktywacją HAN (2024)

Set it to very verbose. And show us the logs.

I am going to scan the band of interest to check if there is any RF present from the AMIplus meter and if there is anything - I will gather the most verbose log from wmbusmeters when able and share.

Done!

Unfortunately, SDR Console v3.3 does not show any activity in the spectrum around 868.6 (± 1.024) MHz that could be coming from this AMIplus meter. There are plenty short bursts from water meters (almost sure those are izar) and periodical keep-alive bursts from the PIR motion sensors. Conclusion: TAUron failed to activate the mBUS interface in the meter. So sad!

I reported the situation to TAUron- hope they will send the servicemen to take care of it on-site. Will report here when something new happens.

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That’s exactly what I wanted to suggest. They are more aware of the situation with the meters than any other operator. And from your screenshot, they already tried to resolve the situation. So there must be a will as well to solve it.

There has been such a will, as it just turns out. They were here two days ago, but did not have any contact info directly to me, so I was not aware of the fact. It was just pure luck this time (a neighbour called me when the technicians were about to leave) and I let them in. I spoke with them while the firmware was updated through the optical port and learned the activation of HAN in the service mode via PLC is frequently unsuccessful (as was in my case) and they keep running around with a laptop to fix things on-site. I wonder if these latest meters had been properly tested before they rolled them out in the field.
They said it may take up to 48 hours for this thing to reconfigure / reinitialize, get registered by the central system and start sending datagrams on its mBUS interface. Will keep you posted as soon as I get it working.

EDIT:
#1
yeah… 72 hours later and… no change. Nothing new. I doubt anything will change, so waiting until Monday and then will request another visit to fix the issue for good. A friend of mine who knows more about TAURON says this whole FUBAR situation might prove hopeless. We’ll wait and see.
#2
107.5 hours later - same. This is hopeless. I contacted the technician and invited them over for another round of in-house firmware flashing. Will see how that goes.

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Trust me, that is not.

When you receive an answer like this from ENEA, that is hopeless!

True - this looks more like
no, not available - maybe one day.
At least you know you’re not gonna get it. Here - what a pain it is. The told they will let the central operators know and - once the technicians are given a work order - they shall contact me and make an appointment. We’ll see if this is going to be any time soon.

This sound like what ENEA wrote a long time ago when refused a smart meter installation on the basis that they do not give access to the end users. Guess what, never have been contacted. The person who changed the meter has not even rang the bell, my wife just noticed that the power went off in the house. No communication at all. Could not answer any questions about the meter, etc.

Well… These guys here are quite friendly and do answer questions. But if there is anything at a system level they are capable of debugging - not sure. Remains to be seen. Will keep you posted. Also, I am fortunate to have the meter inside the house, so they can’t touch it unless I let them in first. They must call me before they can get access to it.
By the way: the PLC level jumps a lot - sometimes 1 and other times 3 bars.

OK, we are back in business. Although the signal status on the meter is unchanged (no bars next to the house icon) - the mBus datagrams are present and nicely registering every 30 seconds. The technician just called and confirmed the interval, so everything is as it should be. :grin: :upside_down_face: :grin:

{"media":"electricity","meter":"amiplus","name":"prund/P15_Main","id":"XXXXXXXX","current_power_consumption_kw":0.353,"current_pow
er_production_kw":0,"total_energy_consumption_kwh":424.277,"total_energy_production_kwh":0,"voltage_at_phase_1_v":238,"voltage_at_
phase_2_v":236,"voltage_at_phase_3_v":242,"device_date_time":"2024-05-28 22:49:48","timestamp":"2024-05-28T20:49:49Z","device":"rt
lwmbus[cmd_0]","rssi_dbm":137}
{"media":"electricity","meter":"amiplus","name":"prund/P15_Main","id":"XXXXXXXX","current_power_consumption_kw":0.346,"current_pow
er_production_kw":0,"total_energy_consumption_kwh":424.279,"total_energy_production_kwh":0,"voltage_at_phase_1_v":238,"voltage_at_
phase_2_v":235,"voltage_at_phase_3_v":241,"device_date_time":"2024-05-28 22:50:18","timestamp":"2024-05-28T20:50:19Z","device":"rt
lwmbus[cmd_0]","rssi_dbm":138}
{"media":"electricity","meter":"amiplus","name":"prund/P15_Main","id":"XXXXXXXX","current_power_consumption_kw":0.347,"current_pow
er_production_kw":0,"total_energy_consumption_kwh":424.282,"total_energy_production_kwh":0,"voltage_at_phase_1_v":239,"voltage_at_
phase_2_v":235,"voltage_at_phase_3_v":242,"device_date_time":"2024-05-28 22:50:48","timestamp":"2024-05-28T20:50:49Z","device":"rt
lwmbus[cmd_0]","rssi_dbm":140}
{"media":"electricity","meter":"amiplus","name":"prund/P15_Main","id":"XXXXXXXX","current_power_consumption_kw":0.345,"current_pow
er_production_kw":0,"total_energy_consumption_kwh":424.286,"total_energy_production_kwh":0,"voltage_at_phase_1_v":238,"voltage_at_
phase_2_v":235,"voltage_at_phase_3_v":242,"device_date_time":"2024-05-28 22:51:18","timestamp":"2024-05-28T20:51:19Z","device":"rt
lwmbus[cmd_0]","rssi_dbm":141}

By the way: rumour has it HAN activation is now a semi-automatic procedure where (at least for this NES meter) they must physically attend to the device to activate mBus. As stated: a rumour at this time.

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It is so great that these are remote-reading meters… Hope that the remote disconnector is working the same way! :rofl:

Interesting - I wonder if there is a high-current relay (i.e. “stycznik” as opposed to “przekaźnik”) in the meter (I doubt it is in the box).

All of these meters should be equipped with a remote disconnector. It is meant to be used for system stabilisation. Turning off heavy users, high loads, etc. I cannot remember that is it part of the regulation on not, but I think so.

I see. OK. Hmmm… one would have to open the enclosure and inspect what’s inside to make sure. But how to do that - I am afraid it isn’t exactly easy to get hold of a meter like this.

Stabilność sieci jest celem nadrzędnym, więc dwukierunkowe smart-liczniki mają domyślnie zamontowany rozłącznik (stycznik bistabilny, bo musi wracać do stanu srzed zaniku zasilania), przykładowe sytuacje, gdy jest konieczne jego użycie to przekroczenie poziomu poboru energii biernej (w tym wypadku licznik może reagować samodzielnie na takie sytuacje) lub sytuacje gdy trzeba zrzucić z sieci nadprodukcję energii np. z instalacji PV, w tym wypadku musi decydować operator sieci, bo z punktu widzenia sieci użytkownika nie da się stwierdzić sytuacji w makroskali.

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aha, no tak - jeszcze jest możilwa cofka energi do tyłu (przy prosumenctwie). Jasne! Dzięki.

To były przyczyny techniczne, ale istnieją też… formalne - wystarczy, że kasa na liczniki była choćby w części z dotacji, bądź liczniki były kupione w przetargu (a raczej były)
zajrzyj do tego
https://archiwum-bazakonkurencyjnosci.funduszeeuropejskie.gov.pl/file/download/541943

swoją drogą skoro to zdjęcie twojego licznika, to jak widać ma stycznik “na pokładzie”

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The original picture was of my own meter, yes. I must have forgotten about this note in the corner. So, yeah, the 80A relay is built-in. Good! Very good.

As far as formal reasons behind this particular requirement (to be able to cut off power from the customer) - don’t really know what it means, but maybe reading the material provided could make it clear for me. I will try.

By the way: Gábor @GSzabados is right - if the PLC communication is as sketchy as we can see - it is perplexing how they could act swiftly in an emergency. If the command can take minutes to be acknowledged by the meter - well… good luck to them, The Operators.

Nie wiem czy jesteś wystarczająco stary by pamiętać takie określenie jak “dwudziesty stopień zasilania”… no ja pamiętam, bo bywało, że trzeba było odrabiać zadania domowe przy świeczkach.

Ale problemy ze stabilnością systemu energetycznego to nie tylko domena głębokiego socjalizmu, takie rzeczy zdarzały się stosunkowo niedawno w bogatych stanach w USA…
(tam nawet są teraz dostępne taryfy umożliwiające operatorowi sieci energetycznej zdalne wyłączanie klimatyzacji, oczywiście na zasadzie coś za coś - tracisz komfort, ale masz taniej).

Generalnie możliwość zdalnego odcinania odbiorców czy prosumentów, choć kojarzy się z kontrolą totalitarną ma za zadanie dobro nadrzędne, czyli poprawne działanie całości systemu energetycznego.

W ogóle z energią elektryczną jest taki poważny problem, że bardzo trudno ją przechowywać, a jeśli się to udaje to jest to mało efektywne energetycznie i de facto kosztowne ze względu na to, że sprzęt do jej przechowywania zużywa się stosunkowo szybko i równocześnie jest stosunkowo drogi.
Więc systemy energetyczne w zasadzie od zawsze działały na zasadzie - produkujemy tyle ile jest wykorzystywane (co w przypadku klasycznych elektrowni jest stosunkowo łatwe w realizacji).


Hehe no kwestia stabilności systemu nie wymaga wyłączania odbiorców z sekundową dokładnością, pojedyncze 20kW nadmiernego obciążenia czy nadprodukcji nie ma wielkiego znaczenia, ale gdy w grę wchodzą tysiące czy setki tysięcy takich niewielkich instalacji to wpływ jest widoczny (w centrum dużego miasta, gdzie nie ma żadnych instalacji PV napięcie mi pływa zgodnie z rytmem nasłonecznienia…), więc w liczniku można zaprogramować jakieś parametry krytyczne, które spowodują zadziałanie zabezpieczenia bez “kontaktu z bazą”.

Natomiast myślę, że to o czym tu była wiele razy mowa, to kwestia “betonu umysłowego” w strukturach kierowniczych tych operatorów (gdzie zapewne większość nie chce brać odpowiedzialności za działania), być może jest to też kwestia zwykłego cięcia kosztów (no nie pracuję w sektorze energetycznym, ale doskonale wiem jakie skutki ma brak odpowiedniej edukacji na wszystkich szczeblach, i to pewnie widzi każdy kto pracuje w jakiejkolwiek branży stosującej bardziej zaawansowane technologie…).

O tak, zdecydowanie jestem wystarczająco stary (1970)
image

Z tą oczywistością “coś za coś” w USA - noo… byłbym ostrożny. Z relacji rodziny z Kalifornii wiem, że tam operatory to też niezłe sQQQuirvielle.

A co do nieDoedukowania betonu i innych - w pełni się zgadzam. Za dużo jest ignorantów. Przecież tego wątku pewnie w ogóle by nie było, gdyby nie jest poSrane glicze w systemie u tauronowców.

Sorry, but this going to be a bit off topic.

The problem is really the fact, that none of this information is disclosed clearly and correctly to the end users. Even that the purpose of the EU directive is to make the end user clear on how much it consumes and how much does it cost, the attitude of the operators are still to keep the end users in the dark.

The latest change of the Energy Law allowing to use on variable price will make it clear to end users that how big profit margin these companies use.

And also, as you stated, taking no responsibility. The real problem is when you have a PV installation and your grid is flooded with electricity from PV systems from around. As a well know trend, users set their country settings on their inverters to ones which allow higher voltages, so their inverter would not shut down on a sunny day when the voltage hits 253V. But others followed the rules and keep the correct settings and suffer from the loss of production. The DSO could shut down every PV producers if it would be necessary to stabilise the grid, but the problem is the possibility when you are not compensated for the loss of production. Look at a windfarm operator, their return on investment protected with clauses, where they are compensated if they have to shut down when they could produce. As a single user, you are not. Totalitarian or not, but with all of the smart meter the operator has far more information than what they had years ago, they can react in minutes or even seconds if they want.

The information which is transmitted from the smart meters are really valuable. It defines the electricity market, and not just that. In some countries (actually East of Poland), they develop blockchain solutions for energy trading.

Just to show another example, and that’s the reason of the required encryption, if you don’t have PV, but you are a consumer only, your consumption profile could be used for presence detection. When you are on holiday, you turn off everything, so the consumption clearly drops compared to normal usage. (Highly sensitive information.) The same applies to water usage as well…

But back to the disconnectors. They are dangerous things as well, if they get into the hands of wrong people.

And please do not tell me that you believe that these companies left over from a different era, with the attitude of “we have time to change this till 2031” are up to the task of securing sensitive infrastructure. :rofl:

//Edited some typos…